UPDATE PLEASE READ: How we now handle people asking about Gas

[Dan]

http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/t...eople-who-shouldnt-be-messing-with-gas.96735/

When we refuse help for people when they shouldn't be getting it, please be polite about it, or just don't reply at all.

I want the forum booming again. And we're putting off people far too easily it seems, just be replying with insults and telling them go get somebody in who knows what they're doing etc. That's not good enough.

We'll have a directory soon, of Heating Engineers, Bathroom Fitters, Plumbers etc - So we'll be able to professionally respond with links to our directory and actually still help them out. Rather than just insulting them, so they don't even ask about their taps or whatever in the future.

Is that okay? Or am I being unreasonable?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

fine but threads get locked so no one else can offer advice later down the road

 

[Dan]

Do they? Who said that?

Surely keeping them open and responding to them again with the stock message, soon gets the message across for lurkers.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Do they? Who said that?

Surely keeping them open and responding to them again with the stock message, soon gets the message across for lurkers.

see it happen and more work for the mods later down the road going through old threads and closing them

ask croppie or ap or any of the other mods

 

[Dan]

Yeah, I've seen them do it today. I don't like it. I don't think it's the future for the forum that. Whatever software and setup we had before clearly wasn't working. I've sorted the software, we need to come together now and sort the setup out.

I'm just hanging around and getting a feel for the place before I do anything. Shame you're not a trusted guy, I've just made a thread in there asking for help and whatnot. (Trusted guys - go fish.) I'll see what they come up with before rolling it down the line so to speak.

Hang in there matey. If you can just help with the being polite or just not replying to those types of threads. Even perhaps report them with 'one for dan' for me if you clock them and I'll take over. That'd be great.

 

[Dotty]

Do they? Who said that?

Surely keeping them open and responding to them again with the stock message, soon gets the message across for lurkers.

No, it doesn't @Dan.

Not only that but well meaning posters who aren't familiar with our forum rules can, and do, post up answers to the initial question which not only result in the original poster breaking the law but also putting them in real and immediate danger should they attempt a diy repair.

This is why we close down those threads, and as politely as we can.

It works. It protects you, it protects us, it protects our members and it protects the forum.

This is a policy we're not going to let you change, @Dan. Sorry.

 

[Dan]

Clearly whatever you're doing before now hasn't worked because we're still getting people asking.

It doesn't protect the forum's future at all. It's on its arse. And part the reason judging by a LOT of feedback I've got, is we're just too harsh with newbies and people not in the usual clique.

I'm going to keep going through some threads and see what I can suggest.

But closing threads isn't what we're going to carry on doing.

'You need to go find somebody who knows what they're doing' type response then shut them down just doesn't cut the mustard.

There are loads of other options. Make an informed decision and be informed of those first before sticking to your guns about it pal. This isn't the old forum setup, or software. That didn't work.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

As @croppie Said i echo those thoughts,we do what we do to protect the forum,the general public and its members,if someone where to die through advice given on ukpf,it would be a very different ballgame

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yeah, I've seen them do it today. I don't like it. I don't think it's the future for the forum that. Whatever software and setup we had before clearly wasn't working. I've sorted the software, we need to come together now and sort the setup out.

I'm just hanging around and getting a feel for the place before I do anything. Shame you're not a trusted guy, I've just made a thread in there asking for help and whatnot. (Trusted guys - go fish.) I'll see what they come up with before rolling it down the line so to speak.

Hang in there matey. If you can just help with the being polite or just not replying to those types of threads. Even perhaps report them with 'one for dan' for me if you clock them and I'll take over. That'd be great.

get where your going but its down to safety weather you like it or not, think the forum would get more of a bad rap if we killed someone worse than closing a few threads,

make an account on the elec forum and ask how to connect up either a shower or a main switch you will get the same answers

also we always are well all of the reg members, the only times it goes south is when the op doesnt like the answer hes given and then quotes a load of bull and throws the toys out

gasman beat me to it

 

[Dotty]

Dan, seriously mate. Gas is a different beast entirely to all your other trades. It is the only one that is vigorously regulated. It is the only trade that can, and does, carry custodial sentences for ignoring the law.

This is what we're protecting you from.

This is what we protect have a go heroes with no idea of their own limits from.

And we will not allow information to be divulged that could result in peoples deaths.

That is why we tell posters to get someone in, the same goes for oil, solid fuel and unvented cylinders.

Get them wrong and it's not "oops, I got a little bit wet there." It'll be more along the lines of catastrophic building destruction and people losing their lives.

 

[Dan]

No it isn't. Electrics? Nearly all house fires are caused by electrics pal.

Look, don't shoot me down. I too don't want to advise the wrong people. What I'm saying is the way you're going about it, kills a forum.

A forum by definition means 'open discussion' and you're literally closing discussions. lol

This is my job, I'm one of the best in the world at it. I can come up with a solution, that's automated, using software and code. I guarantee it.

Here's an example I've just quickly thought of. Just to prove to you, so I have you guys to thank, but actually, it might work!

Say we have two key groups on the forum. Gas Fitters then Water Plumbers. Of which DIY and just your general bathroom fitter can fall under. And when you register to the site you choose which group you are (unknowing that it's going to stick you in a section on the forum) and when one chooses Water Plumbers, they can never get in Gas stuff. And have warnings saying not to post about gas. But if they do, there's no gas people in there anyway to reply, so nobody has really got an answer.

But then if they click Gas Fitter at registration, they go in the gas areas, away from the pipe benders, but they have a week or so to prove they're gas or they get removed automatically.

Or something like that?

There's no need to do it all at thread level, when the person is expecting a reply, it's too late, we've ballsed up already. And when we do, we look a twit either way. We reply and look like fools. We don't a look like fools. We've lost well before then.

Work with me and let's sort this out. But you're going to have to or I'll just work it out myself from browsing.

Putting your foot down wont work. lol

 

[Dotty]

No it isn't. Electrics?

How often do you hear of a moody electrician in court? Or a house being demolished because of dodgy electrics? Or a family dying of CO poisoning because they messed around with a couple of wires.

I'm not taking anything away from the sparkies but their trade doesn't carry the same potential to kill that ours does.

 

[Dan]

How often do you hear of a moody electrician in court? Or a house being demolished because of dodgy electrics? Or a family dying of CO poisoning because they messed around with a couple of wires.

I'm not taking anything away from the sparkies but their trade doesn't carry the same potential to kill that ours does.

Monthly.

I hear of babies dying because somebody got the wrong advice and they didn't protect a ring they extended for a baby's bedroom say. Or perhaps overloaded a ring main in a kitchen and trapped a family in a block of flats with a kitchen fire. Which kills silently just the same. Don't think I don't have risks on my other forums that equal death.

But what we do over there, because we're super professional, is work together on bettering the industry. Work with the various associations to get their official advice etc. Work with training companies and whatnot to make sure they're keeping up to date with the regs.

And then use the clever software. And more to the point, the power of LOTS OF BRAINS WORKING TOGETHER.

Don't shoot me down. We want the same thing here.

You're just not suggesting the right thing that'll work ongoing. And perhaps neither am I. But I'm willing to work on some ideas and test with you. Doesn't seem like you lot from the facebook club are to be frank lol

 

[Dan]

Here is some feedback "Congrats on the upgrade.
I'm not gas safe but visited here for quite a while. Just like to thank you for the new forum advice at the top about respect. There has been terrible arrogance on show for quite a while from at least one old hand who should know better. Think they want active participant count to be down to just the one! Why post if being non gas safe invites insults? Some of us are professionals in other spheres and it can be easy to take offence.
Thanks again,
Graham"

I literally just had that this second.

I have 3 dozen more.

Whatever you're doing lads, I'm sure it's for the right reasons, but it's not working for the forum. The forum nearly died.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

if there asking about gas safe advice and hes not gas safe i dont get how he would be affected ?

unless hes asking about how to change a diverter valve which requires you to be gas safe

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Dan,its this simple,if someone died through advice given on this forum the HSE would be contacting you asking why you or your experienced admins did not stop it,the forum would die rapidly if we were ever linked to a death by advice given on here ,over the years we have had some right idiots to put up with ,the simple fact is FB are killing us,people are lazy and want everything on one page

 

[Dotty]

No, Dan.

The forum nearly died because we were running with old software that didn't work with the devices in use, because the software was double posting, if posting at all, because there were spurious posts coming over from the tilers forums, and because it was appearing we had no support from you.

We love this place, Dan, we love what you've given us. But don't blame us for nearly killing the forum by knocking a few noses out of joint!

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Also a gas engineer is often a plumber or heating engineer,our problem is ,not everyone is gas safe,we try our best by asking for their gsr number,if they wont provide one we close the thread for safety reasons,we also put up with a lot of abuse on here sometimes

 

[Dan]

I've taken the discussion between moderators to the moderators forum as I've included some info in there about what we might be able to do.

I'm not taking any more suggestions on this here. It's happening. We're not closing threads now for any reason but spam.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

but why cant you close the thread

i got a senorio for you

persons not gas safe

he asks for boiler repair advice

we ask for his gas safe reg

he says he hasnt got one

we replay

For obvious reasons, we won't and can't help you fiddle with things that fall under strict laws, laws that are there to prevent people from blowing themselves, or other people up.

<tongue-in- cheek>We're not too fussed about them blowing themselves up - Darwin Award and all that. But it's the other people we're bothered about that didn't have a choice in the matter.</tongue-in-cheek>

UKPlumbersForums.co.uk is here for all types of plumbers. But to repair or install anything that requires you to comply with laws, you'll need to follow the correct procedure to prove you're competent (i.e. registered with Gas Safe and have a Gas Safe ID).

You're welcome to ask about water plumbing and whatnot. But lay off the Heating Engineer-related questions please. Carrying on may result in your account being restricted or suspended from the forum.

he goes aways and asks on the diynot forum and gets and answer

4 months later

b person comes along

and says the fix is needs a new gas valve/pcb etc and easy fix

c person comes along and has the same boiler as the op and sees whats wrong with his boiler and orders a new valve and fits it himself

i dont get why you need to keep the thread open if the poster isnt gas safe reg theres no info we can give him any other info the mods will have to delete, in regards to fixing etc

in the end makes more mess and more work

see my point dan ????????

(edit)

theres no plus/ advantage of keeping the thread open is there

if so can you list them?

 

[Dan]

The second reply would warrant perhaps a link to the first time we posted the advice. And an offer to guide them to the heating engineer directory we're making, or perhaps to contact the boiler manufacturer (I'm hoping to get manufacturers on board here, even if not sponsors, with a free account) either on the forum or directly, and it gives us a chance to help them out on this one thing whilst not actually fixing their issue. So they come back.

That's the absolute worst case that you've given me.

What I'm actually finding is people being insulted by the no holes bared setup we have of throwing hissy fits. Point in case the thread earlier that spurred all this on.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

The second reply would warrant perhaps a link to the first time we posted the advice. And an offer to guide them to the heating engineer directory we're making, or perhaps to contact the boiler manufacturer (I'm hoping to get manufacturers on board here, even if not sponsors, with a free account) either on the forum or directly, and it gives us a chance to help them out on this one thing whilst not actually fixing their issue. So they come back.

That's the absolute worst case that you've given me.

What I'm actually finding is people being insulted by the no holes bared setup we have of throwing hissy fits. Point in case the thread earlier that spurred all this on.

i think your personally digging a bigger hole sorry

and tbh no thats the most regular on either my boiler is noisy, wont light , wont turn on

there the most popular

and how is (for training)

We do not discuss gas in open forum.

But with guys like you, who are training and whom we feel we have a responsibility to help with your understanding, there is a get out.

Increase your post count up to 100+ with meaningful posts then apply to join the Arms. We're happy to help you in there out of public view.

(non gas safe)

Yep you need a gas Safe engineer out. Need to read the forum rules mate. Will probably be under warranty if installed legally,

If you are gsr then get your post count upto ten and then send your gas safe details to a moderator so you can gain access to the inner gsr sanctum where gas issues can be discussed openly.

 

[Dan]

Okay, so for the first few questions you give as examples. What would the instruction manuals say to do, to check, BEFORE they get their plumber in?

And why can't we reply with that kind of advice. Then offer one of our gas fitters, rather than loosing a sale to the manufacturers connections?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Okay, so for the first few questions you give as examples. What would the instruction manuals say to do, to check, BEFORE they get their plumber in?

And why can't we reply with that kind of advice. Then offer one of our gas fitters, rather than loosing a sale to the manufacturers connections?

nothing as to test you need to be gas safe no fine line

we have been doing they have been taken from replys to thread

and we do check the i require the services of a gas safe engy

already been doing this dan

 

[Dan]

I've rang Worcester Bosch and they've told me to turn it off and on and read codes to them and things before they've sent somebody out.

So there is a process to find out what the person is doing first here.

Clearly a bloke who's GSR has ran out and he's fitting a boiler he's not seen for a while and coming on sounding like he knows what hes talking about needs a reply that directs him to apply for GSR forum and politely telling him he won't get advice.

The forum members need telling not to advise them (if they don't already - why are we still being asked?)

I just don't think we are doing enough at many levels. If it has got to a thread and we say no there and then, I've not done my job directing them to the right place beforehand.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

yea there fault codes (gives them what parts it may need)

shouldnt be fitting a boiler if he isnt gas safe no ifs no buts, and we do

Get a gsr in. You are neither competent nor qualified to open a boiler up. Removal of the case is classified as gas work.

Right ok hope you understand, as we don't allow gas repair advice on an open forum for safety reason

Get your post count upto 10 (non spamming)

Then you need to pm a mod for further details (croppie, applumbing or gasman)

again posts from members

thing is you cant direct them if there not qualified, you can ask them where they are to see if a memeber is close to them but you cant please everyone and some just throw hissy fits becuase you said then cant do somthing

 

[REDSAW]

hmmm!!
dont we have a rule where it says
'' if you have nothing constructive to say, then say nothing'' ?

if a member offers advice then it is their name on the court order, not yours!!

 

[Dan]

Mine, the forums, Untold Developments Ltd (the owner of the brands), or the forum member providing the advice, is a loss in my eyes either way. We helped somebody get advice that shouldn't have done.

What I'd like to do is avoid the questions in the first place. And section off the two types of member. The people who can discuss gas and fuels etc. And those that can't.

I'm even considering hooking up somehow with the database of GSR. Something I'd like to meet with them about. So that if a member registers with the same details they have on their database, by using an API, we could perhaps automatically send them to a whole different type of forum for them. And keep the normal one for the normal guys, and erase their threads not just close them. As if we're a forum about Pets or Space and they're posting gas stuff here. Like whaaaat? Why would we know that? Type thing and get rid of their questions.

I'm thinking out loud still here. But I'm working on it.

 

[Darren Jackson]

Clearly a debate for the mods to sort out between themselves, Just by being polite in our response will go a long way to helping the forum's longevity & reputation.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

its out of passion for the forum and dont want it to be like this

https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/15-mm-connection-for-p-t-valve.480088/

 

[Dan]

its out of passion for the forum and dont want it to be like this

https://www.******.com/diy/threads/15-mm-connection-for-p-t-valve.480088/

I've quickly blocked their URL pmsl

We don't want direct people there eh ha

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I've quickly blocked their URL pmsl

We don't want direct people there eh ha

in a private part of the forum so not like the joe public can see us

 

[Lou]

in a private part of the forum so no like the joe public can see us

I love the fact you're willing to help the team sort this out.

Are you a Trusted Advisor?
Edit: just looked, no you're not by the looks of it.

Not sure what the terms are to get in TA here. But you should try and be one. There's a new thread I just posted in the arms. We want more people like you on the team. I'll have a word with the staff see what we're doing about that. I'm quite new here I'm sure you already know. But hopefully here to take the mundane tasks off of the staff so we can get things done quickly.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I love the fact you're willing to help the team sort this out.

Are you a Trusted Advisor?
Edit: just looked, no you're not by the looks of it.

Not sure what the terms are to get in TA here. But you should try and be one. There's a new thread I just posted in the arms. We want more people like you on the team. I'll have a word with the staff see what we're doing about that. I'm quite new here I'm sure you already know. But hopefully here to take the mundane tasks off of the staff so we can get things done quickly.

all most of us regulars ask, dont start telling the mods/ enforcing new rules without first going and asking/ giving them a heads up and what do they think about them

they make the forum the place it is

 

[Lou]

all most of us regulars ask, dont start telling the mods/ enforcing new rules without first going and asking/ giving them a heads up and what do they think about them

they make the forum the place it is

Don't you worry about what we do and don't do with the mods. It's above your pay grade lol

Back to the topic.

I was trying to compliment you FFS.