i'm work on my own nd have recieved a tender for 18 dwellings, HELP?!

[Paul - PDS]

Hi everyone just joined the forum and looking forward using it!

So I have received a fair few of these enquiries in the last year or so. Big companies working on behalf of my local council etc requesting a price for 42 weeks worth of work. I've always been scared off by it to be honest as i'm only a 1 man band with the odd mate to help me out on heating installs. I really want to get into this sector as it's clearly very profitable but I have "0" experience in dealing with tenders etc, just wouldn't know where to start!



So, has anybody here "made the break" and gone for it? What is needed etc?



Thanks in advance for your comments, should be an interesting thread if there are people out there with small success stories!



Paul

 

[lame plumber]

just keep clear, your the pawn here

 

[Ray Stafford]

as it's clearly very profitable

Not usually profitable for the poor stiff actually doing the dirty work.

Be very careful. I have seen many a good business go bust chasing this sort of contract. Not for the unwary.

 

[lame plumber]

if you want council work, get on their list of contractors and get to know some of the ha officers, they can give out emergency repairs etc to smaller contractors, but and heres the but, the jobs are normally in the filthiest of flats etc.

 

[basildog]

Profitable ?
You are having a laugh !
The big boys emply people to make sure you do not get paid !
My old QS worked for the big boys and some of the stories he told me were outrageous .
Park your van on their drive and you might well get a bill for relaying block paving or turfing the garden .
If you are not used to dealing with the big boys stay well away they will treat you like a lemon !

 

[furryneddy]

Not to mention 90 days invoicing :banghead:

 

[Ray Stafford]

The big boys emply people to make sure you do not get paid !

Yep. I was sat in a main contractors office once, whilst they were discussing how to price a contract. In the end, they decided on cost LESS 15%, on the grounds that they would still make a profit once they had finished bashing the subbies.

Genuine true story.

 

[Masood]

Yep. I was sat in a main contractors office once, whilst they were discussing how to price a contract. In the end, they decided on cost LESS 15%, on the grounds that they would still make a profit once they had finished bashing the subbies.

Genuine true story.

Gulp! Note to self - don't expand the business in THAT direction!

 

[basildog]

Yep. I was sat in a main contractors office once, whilst they were discussing how to price a contract. In the end, they decided on cost LESS 15%, on the grounds that they would still make a profit once they had finished bashing the subbies.

Genuine true story.

Yes I know it is true they really do work like that !
Take the groundworkers first then the brickies next go the roofers followed by the chippies and all get sent bills for repairs even though ceased trading so now a countercalim ans no hassle with the recievers ! I could not sleep at night .

 

[Leo21]

Definitely bottom of the food chain.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Its not always that bad i do alot of contract work and can be very pofitable


however if you dont get your pricing right it can quickly go pear shaped

my advise if it dont look right or looks like possible problems dont price it

 

[Ermintrude]

Subcontracting is a scary game. I used to be at other end. Main contractor site manager / project manager for Jarvis, carillon, bbusl & bethnal rail. Never signed day works, ripped up variations and charged Subbies for being onsite! Said I would never subby to main contractor.

Other than getting stuffed u got all the CDM and H&S to contend with, environmental , housing reps, employing local dropouts to satisfy diversity and riding your bike so u look good for considerate constructors scheme. Pure pap!

Do u think if it was easy money medium sized businesses wouldn't be all over it? Any way run before u can walk; boom and bust; too busy to count the pennies! Don't open envelopes, waste of time... Unless it's one off repairs and your on 30 days? / tip don't let them get u upto £5000 in the first month, you will make a mistake on invoice ( you won't know you have) but you won't be paid for 60 days and it won't be in full!

 

[basildog]

Or Oh dear you missed our payment deadline for this month !
You do know it is 90 days ?
No I agreed 30 ?
There is nothing in writing on our file !

 

[mountainman]

I think the question has been fully and honestly answered! Lol

 

[hammers4spanner]

I have a few mates that are at the higher end of the building trade and what they tell me off the record is shocking .

I dont understand anyone wanting to wait 90 days for payment either

 

[basildog]

I have a few mates that are at the higher end of the building trade and what they tell me off the record is shocking .

I dont understand anyone wanting to wait 90 days for payment either

I do not think they want to wait that long it is just the way they play !
It would not be 90 as your invoice will miss deadline so nearer 120 !

 

[basildog]

A lot of big companies work on rebates from their suppliers so you can never really work out what cost is !
aLL the merchants work on rebates as do car dealers which is why I used to get a phone call do you want a van or 2 this month ?
Ok whats the deal ?
Better than second hand but often sold in bulk to a rental firm so you get new van but do not get shown as first owner on reg doc ! Who cares ?

 

[Ray Stafford]

Its not always that bad i do alot of contract work and can be very pofitable

Did you ever get a profitable one from an unsolicited email hammers?

 

[Ray Stafford]

A lot of big companies work on rebates from their suppliers so you can never really work out what cost is !
aLL the merchants work on rebates

Yep. We sometimes don't know the true cost of a boiler until 2 years after we sell it.

 

[basildog]

When I had the building firm you would get huge jobs toprice sent by Arhitects without even the courtesy of a phone call ?
Sometimes if house looked interesting would go and look but they had no chance of getting a price !
You string them along you were just making up numbers !
Do they really think you are going to spend thousands of pounds pricing ?

 

[AWheating]

the first question is do you have the cashflow to do this type of work? you will need to have enough money to buy 3-4 months of materials and pay 3-4 months of wages before you get any money coming the other way.

Add that to the fact the profit margins can be as low as 3-4% and you have to have 24hr call out and 2year warranty, heavy health and safety stuff, etc...... etc.......etc...........

best team up with somebody who has already got the required things in place. Maybe a electrical contractor who is looking to price into the mechanical side of the work.

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

Real eye opener this thread, think i'll stick to domestic stuff

 

[chris watkins]

So, just checking & confirm this for me, if you will, you don't think going into this area of contracting work is a good idea then? Cos there seems to be a bit of conflicting advice to the OP,er. reading through.

(well I think one post may have said one word that could have been taken as a positive. LOL)

PS makes you wonder how many new houses get built don't it!!

 

[Reg Man]

Pirates is what they are. They pay off all of the crew first (admin staff, mangers, Official body subscriptions that tell them how good they are. Share holders on the big boys) then you get the pickings, for doing the whole job for them.

 

[Howsie]

I priced up a job a couple of years ago for a house. My price was £120,000 and I got it. Met the guy who owned the development company, was in with the QS and the architect. Agreed terms, phased payments and a start date.

By pure chance happened to get a couple of small jobs from them before the project kicked off. Nightmare to get paid. Did some digging and found out they had folded several companies before leaving the little man in poo.

If its too good to be true then walk away. That job would have crippled us if it went south.

 

[AWheating]

So, just checking & confirm this for me, if you will, you don't think going into this area of contracting work is a good idea then? Cos there seems to be a bit of conflicting advice to the OP,er. reading through.

(well I think one post may have said one word that could have been taken as a positive. LOL)

PS makes you wonder how many new houses get built don't it!!

if you have the means and experience to do this work then you can make profit, you need to fully understand what your getting into tho which is why most posts are on the negative side. Due to the competition in this sector the profit margins are never very high tbh so you need to know exactly what your costs are per job to make a profit.

for example i worked for a guy who was doing local council kitchen and bathroom work (just the plumbing and any gas work), subbying to a main contractor. his profit for each kitchen was approx £6 to £10 after 1st fix, 2nd fix, move cooker etc........ This may be good if your doing hundreds of kitchens a year, it may not be worth it if your doing a few per week. He would cringe when id tell him id put a new cooker hose on the existing cooker as his QS would have to fight to get the extra money to cover the cost.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Did you ever get a profitable one from an unsolicited email hammers?

Fortunately for me i know quite a few big swingers down this way and a business solicitor with alot of clout that are now good friends .
I get good recommends who to work for and if they mess me about they get messed about by the powers that be if they require work .

I pick and choose my jobs and anything that i dont like or looks to much hassle then i simply dont do .I probably do about 3 medium sized installs (10 k ish) and a couple bigger ones and price right it pays well .

The biggest rats that i have come across are the big gas companies biggest scum bags of the lot could never get paid
carillion scum ,mears nuisance, eaga super scum,liberty bag of scum

Its the gas ones which is my trade is where i have had biggest hassle

The ardmore group are known to be ruthless but as a subbie working labour only i found they were briliiant

swings roundabouts as they say

 

[Paul - PDS]

Thanks everyone. I think i'll just contact them and say I want money upfront etc so i'm covered and if they don't like it then they can sod off! Seems very risky

 

[DaveTidy]

I'd stick to Joe public if I were you.

My brother was done for just north of 200k which sent his business (Large gas provider) to the wall and my old man was done for 13k (Local Social Housing Contractor).

Having worked for 4 social housing contractors (at manager and director level) I was shocked as to the sharp practice which is the accepted norm to rip contractors and merchants off.

From top to bottom there were fiddles, cons, illegal practice, embezzlement and low profit margins (around 4/5%), destined for failure.

3 out of the 4 have been taken over and on all occassions the contractors didn't get paid. At least if you work for standard customers you only have that one job as a financial risk and you can weigh them in your favour if you're wise.

I got out of that side of the industry as I've never seen so many bare faced crooks messing it up for the honest people trying to do a good job there.

Yes there are success stories but more trajedys. Steer clear!