CIPHE, what do you think?

[shorticus]

As I value other's opinions (allmost as much as my own lol), thought I'd ask you all what you think of CIPHE?

 

[justlead1]

I consider them to be the good. Their publications of of high quality and informative. (Although being a member might make me a bit bias)

 

[Toddyplumb]

Im a member as I think we all should be , simply because we are then accountable to someone. They have proffessional standards inspectors for use in disputes etc

 

[tamz]

Not a CIPHE member but a member of SNIPEF (Scottish equivelent).
The annual fees are more than Gas Safe fees. Is it worth it? I think so. There are a lot of benefits.

 

[billybongo]

While we are on the subject do any of you other members have problems accessing the forum , i have had an ongoing problem getting on the forum which they cant never seem to sort out . I to think being a member is of value but little things like the above are frustrating .

 

[Puddle]

I am a member,have been for years

As I believe all plumbers should be registered and be prepared to be responsible and accountable for the work they carry out

It is a professional organisation for the professional plumber and others involved in the trade, fellow members are respectful of each other however have always found very helpful and approachable

Membership fee is very reasonable and affordable

So I would recommend it



imho

 

[Toddyplumb]

Billybongo , have you contacted them ? I did have a problem getting on a while back but they soon sorted it.

 

[billybongo]

Toddyplumb, i contacted them many times there IT person never seemed available , i sort of lost the will to live on that one . maybe i will have another go .

 

[CIPHE]

Hi Billybongo

Really sorry to hear you've had problems getting on the CIPHE site. Drop me an email with your contact details and I'll make sure it is sorted. As a member you should be able to find my email but if not it is on the website under contact us.

CIPHE CEO

Hey Tamz

Just to clarify, SNIPEF is the Scottish and Northern Ireland Plumbing Employers Federation and is a trade association which is the same as APHC in England and Wales. These bodies are great at protecting their members’ business interests.
The Chartered Institute of Plumbing and Heating Engineering is the only Professional Body for plumbing and heating engineering. We run the Registered Plumber, Registered Heating Professional and GreenPlumb schemes that allow you to have letters after your name just like other professionals (e.g. surveyors, architects and environmental health officers).
If all businesses were members of a trade association and all employers only employed registered professionals (like it is with Gas Safe but voluntarily) the cowboys would find it harder to operate doing bad work that make the public think that plumbing and heating engineers are all as bad as the ones they see on the telly.
Sadly it doesn't work like that because the government says we do not have enough people voluntarily registered for plumbing and heating and people don't get registered because they don't have to. The result is the cowboys make the fast buck while the rest of us get tarred with their brush.

 

[shorticus]

Thankyou everyone for your responses. I'm a member of CIPHE myself and believe that being so helps raise the bar for the standards of our craft. The reason I initially asked the question was that on another thread another forum member seemed less enthusiastic, I wanted to see how others here felt.

I would like to ask the CIPHE CEO what the institute has instore for the future in order to help raise public awareness?

 

[Penged]

Hi
Ex member waste of time and money the public don't know who they are. Most people just want to know if your gsr.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

i may consider joining,what does yearly membership cost?

 

[Toddyplumb]

There are different costs gasman have a look at the CIPHE web
P S I will be in South Wales on Friday 4th Feb

 

[Puddle]

Hi
Ex member waste of time and money the public don't know who they are. Most people just want to know if your gsr.

Sometimes you do things for your self and your own beliefs,you join organisations because they represent and agree with how you think the trade should be seen and respected

Maybe you do not alway join something ,just because you have to or the public expect it,(I do not advertise anywhere,do not need to,however if you advertise with them,you do get work enquires,I know from fellow members)

You maybe want to look for something directly back out of any investment,like a bigger customer recognition,giving you a return of £2 for every £1 you put in rather than a trade recognition and a proudness of being a registered plumber,that is your chose,it does not make it a waste or time and money

I do not under value the trade of a plumber and respect my fellow registered plumbers who are prepared to put something back to ensure our trade stays respectable and are prepared to be and are accountable for the works and services they provide,just as I used to be corgi registered before it became mandatory

So you can join or not join,that is your chose,however ,no way can the orginisation be classed as a waste of money and time

And getting back to basics ,if I put a quotation in, against someone else,with similar costing, my name at the bottom of the quotation,with my letters afterwards make a difference and edge things in my favour

That and my unquestionable charm and honesty

imho

 

[dontknowitall]

Don't think I've ever thanked you Puddle, so I'm breaking the habit of a lifetime

Great post though and thank you for that!!! (I wanted to be OFTEC partly because I wanted to raise my own standards - not for the money, which is what you're saying I think!)

 

[Penged]

Hi
Puddle good points you've made, and there are a number of points to consider from what you've written, I 've found that the hype they give does not match what is delivered. Still I could have put more into it myself with hindsight.
Once again thanks for the post.
All the best
Penged

 

[CIPHE]

Hi Shorticus, thank you for asking.

In 2011 we will be promoting Registered Plumbers (RP) and Registered Heating Professionals (RHP) in the following ways:

Thames Water will be telling all their customers to use RP for water efficiency. RPs will be paid to supply water efficient products.
We will be promoting on Sky Sports through Rugby Super League matches with pitch side boards, see CIPHE website and last edition of P&HE magazine info and for more on this next year.
We have been promoting RP and RHP with E.On to all their customers this will continue to March through the E.ON ShowerSave scheme which pays RP and RHP CIPHE fees if they fit the devices and helps them to create a good feeling for their customers so they win more work in the future.
200 000 copies of a RICS publication going to new home owners 1/2 page will promote RP and RHP.
At present two other water companies are talking to us about backing RP and RHP in same way as Thames Water.
The following companies will be promoting RP and RHP: Worcester Bosch, Grundfos, Ideal Standard, Fernox, Honeywell, Plumbfix. Others are in discussions (would rather not say yet in case it blows the deals; guess Penged might call that hype). The message will be Get It Right Get A Professional and the manufacturers are putting that in their customer literature and messaging the trade with Get It Right Get registered.
The misconnections group will continue to promote RPs as they people to trust to get their incorrect plumbing fixed.
We need more RP and RHP as we do not have enough to meet consumer demand (oops here I go with the Hype again).
Always happy to take more suggestions, don't say a TV advert we cant afford them unlike GSR but any sensible ideas we will look at seriously.

CIPHE CEO

 

[ocentric]

I have no doubt that the CIPHE is a force for good. But I won't shell out any money to join such an organisation until it is either:
1. A legal requirement
2. Recognised by the majority of consumers

Unfortunately it is neither...at the moment. What with Gas Safe reg & the associated accreditations, MCS for the renewables & all the other tickets required (Water regs, unvented, solar etc) I have to stop spending somewhere. The priority for me will always be the ones that are a necessity followed by the ones that are recognised by my customers.

 

[shorticus]

Hi Shorticus, thank you for asking.

In 2011 we will be promoting Registered Plumbers (RP) and Registered Heating Professionals (RHP) in the following ways:

Thames Water will be telling all their customers to use RP for water efficiency. RPs will be paid to supply water efficient products.
We will be promoting on Sky Sports through Rugby Super League matches with pitch side boards, see CIPHE website and last edition of P&HE magazine info and for more on this next year.
We have been promoting RP and RHP with E.On to all their customers this will continue to March through the E.ON ShowerSave scheme which pays RP and RHP CIPHE fees if they fit the devices and helps them to create a good feeling for their customers so they win more work in the future.
200 000 copies of a RICS publication going to new home owners 1/2 page will promote RP and RHP.
At present two other water companies are talking to us about backing RP and RHP in same way as Thames Water.
The following companies will be promoting RP and RHP: Worcester Bosch, Grundfos, Ideal Standard, Fernox, Honeywell, Plumbfix. Others are in discussions (would rather not say yet in case it blows the deals; guess Penged might call that hype). The message will be Get It Right Get A Professional and the manufacturers are putting that in their customer literature and messaging the trade with Get It Right Get registered.
The misconnections group will continue to promote RPs as they people to trust to get their incorrect plumbing fixed.
We need more RP and RHP as we do not have enough to meet consumer demand (oops here I go with the Hype again).
Always happy to take more suggestions, don't say a TV advert we cant afford them unlike GSR but any sensible ideas we will look at seriously.

CIPHE CEO

How about free leaflets/flyers outling the institute's aims and our code of conduct, gas safe do a similar thing, those of us who do leaflet drops could then distribute them at the same time as doing our own. It of course wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea but I'm sure that I'm not the only one who would be interested.

 

[plumbster3456]

QUOTE****Not a CIPHE member but a member of SNIPEF (Scottish equivelent).
The annual fees are more than Gas Safe fees. Is it worth it? I think so. There are a lot of benefits. QUOTE****

very true comment as this defines you from others snipef will not except any fast tracker no matter what qualifications he has they will have to have served an apprenticeship so customers no they are getting someone with experience and will put people at ease.
Also I think all tradesmen should be a member of a proffesional body to destinguish themselves from your average chancer.

 

[plumbster3456]

hi billybongo

really sorry to hear you've had problems getting on the ciphe site. Drop me an email with your contact details and i'll make sure it is sorted. As a member you should be able to find my email but if not it is on the website under contact us.

Ciphe ceo

hey tamz

just to clarify, snipef is the scottish and northern ireland plumbing employers federation and is a trade association which is the same as aphc in england and wales. These bodies are great at protecting their members’ business interests.
the chartered institute of plumbing and heating engineering is the only professional body for plumbing and heating engineering. We run the registered plumber, registered heating professional and greenplumb schemes that allow you to have letters after your name just like other professionals (e.g. Surveyors, architects and environmental health officers).
if all businesses were members of a trade association and all employers only employed registered professionals (like it is with gas safe but voluntarily) the cowboys would find it harder to operate doing bad work that make the public think that plumbing and heating engineers are all as bad as the ones they see on the telly.
sadly it doesn't work like that because the government says we do not have enough people voluntarily registered for plumbing and heating and people don't get registered because they don't have to. The result is the cowboys make the fast buck while the rest of us get tarred with their brush.

this is wrong information you give snipef in scotland and northen ireland are the same as aphc and ciphe.
Ciphe are nothing in scotland the only recognised employers federation and registered plumbing body in scotland are snipef.
For one you ciphe except fast trackers snipef dont and scotland doesnt so to say ciphe are the only registered plumbing body in britain is false information

 

[shorticus]

this is wrong information you give snipef in scotland and northen ireland are the same as aphc and ciphe.
Ciphe are nothing in scotland the only recognised employers federation and registered plumbing body in scotland are snipef.
For one you ciphe except fast trackers snipef dont and scotland doesnt so to say ciphe are the only registered plumbing body in britain is false information

The statement was correct, CIPHE is the only 'professional’ body as it's the only one that is Chartered.

 

[Gray0689]

Was a member when just iphe
Didn't think very much of them seems meaningless where I live in NI
Was just an expensive magazine

 

[plumbster3456]

The statement was correct, CIPHE is the only 'professional’ body as it's the only one that is Chartered.

whether the word chartered is before the letters snipef makes no difference to the fact ciphe are not recognised by anyone as the governing body of plumbers in scotland this is a fact that snipef are the only recognised plumbing body in Scotland.
I will say one thing that is of my opinion the plumbing vans i see in scotland that have ciphe on it but no snipef sign are plumbers who are either not qualified enough to be a member of snipef or have no proof of serving an apprenticship both of which you need to become snipef registered and which you dont need to become ciphe registered who seem to except anyone

 

[oldplumber]

tadge opinionated arent you p3456 based on the fact you arent a ciphe member and therefore havent undergone the enrolment process with them. I havent a clue how snipef work etc so I wont offer an opinion on the body. Prehaps a little bit of live and let live might be useful here

 

[tamz]

3456 is correct in what he is saying about CIPHE in Scotland and probably NI too. SNIPEF is really the only recognised body but it is not open for individual membership. It is an employers federation, for plumbing employers. Membership is a lot stricter too and as they are tied in with the JIB this is a condition to some things. There are also a lot more benefits both for employers and employees of member firms as they offer everything and more that the CIPHE offer (exept letters after my name) including licencing.
I have thought a couple of times about also joining what was once the institute of plumbers but there would be no point as i am a member of SNIPEF.

I think all plumbers or their employers should be members of a professional body whoever they choose.

 

[CIPHE]

There are differences between a Trade Association and a Professional Body. It is the same with ECA (Electrical Contractors Association) and IET (Institute of Engineering Technology used to be the IEE). The information about accepting fast track is wrong. If you check the criterion we only accept NVQ and SVQ as do SNIPEF (not just the technical certificate). It is true that we accept NVQ level 2 which does not exist in Scotland.
I don't intent to get into a protracted argument but Robert Burgon (Director General of SNIPEF) and I understand the difference and work together on that basis so that is all that really matters.

CIPHE CEO

 

[plumbster3456]

There are differences between a Trade Association and a Professional Body. It is the same with ECA (Electrical Contractors Association) and IET (Institute of Engineering Technology used to be the IEE). The information about accepting fast track is wrong. If you check the criterion we only accept NVQ and SVQ as do SNIPEF (not just the technical certificate). It is true that we accept NVQ level 2 which does not exist in Scotland.
I don't intent to get into a protracted argument but Robert Burgon (Director General of SNIPEF) and I understand the difference and work together on that basis so that is all that really matters.

CIPHE CEO

ok couple of last questions what is involved with level 2? I haved heard people mengtion on this site they got level 2 and gas acs so exactly what part of the whole plumbing qualification that gives level 3 is missed out?
Also *ciphe* could someone finish one of these level 2 courses in 6 weeks get nvq or svq and then become a member with yous or do they have to work for 4 years as apprentice I am now just curious not bringing ciphe as a body down or anything

 

[CIPHE]

Hi Shorticus

Thanks for asking.

We have two water companies at present that are promoting Registered Plumbers to their customers (Thames and Severn Trent) others are discussing it. We will be sponsoring Rugby League this year funded by manufacturers. The pitch side boards will promote Registered Plumbers and Registered Heating Professionals to millions of TV viewers. We are working with a number of manufacturers so that Registered Plumbers and Heating Professionals will gain special access to special discounts that will cover the £78 annual fees. My team will continue to appear on TV advising consumers about the risks of not using properly qualified plumbers and heating engineers. Our website is being improved regarding public searches for Registered Plumbers and Heating Engineers, we got over 3000 searches during the Christmas two week break. It is a no brainer really but you do need to have proper qualifications and experience to get in not just pay your money and get the badge like some schemes. At least you know if you are part of the CIPHE we will be protecting your reputation as a professional and manufactures and utility companies will respect your skills and expertise.

CIPHE CEO

 

[TGor]

Good onya Blane ... keep up the good work!! it matters not whether a body is professional or otherwise as long as they are fighting to maintain and improve the standards of plumbing which I can tell you both CIPHE and SNIPEF are doing very well .. not only in the UK but internationally too ... they get my vote and support as always.

 

[jonesy76]

what benifits does an apprentice/trainee plumber get fom joining or am i aswell saving my money till im fully qualified and then applying

 

[CIPHE]

The cost is £21 per annum. We have some schemes which allow you to buy cheaper tools and attend training programmes. Look out for more information on our website.

CIPHE CEO

 

[sga]

I used a SNIPEF plumber and they have caused me no end of trouble. Went through the SNIPEF PILB customer complaints process, and SNIPEF/PILB carried out an investigation with the agreement of the SNIPEF plumber involved, and found in my favour. SNIPEF/PILB asked me to get quotes from two other SNIPEF plumbers to rectify the job, SNIPEF then selected one and told me to employ them to fix the shoddy work of the original, then deduct that amount from the original SNIPEF plumber's bill. A year later the original SNIPEF plumber served me with a summons, seeking the amount SNIPEF directed me to deduct from the bill and what have SNIPEF done now to address the situation? They have left me to incur costs in court, solicitors fees, and the stress that goes with it. Yet their website claims that customers have peace of mind if they employ a SNIPEF plumber and they claim 'complaints resolution procedure by providing domestic customers (i.e., customers who instruct a Licensed Plumbing Business or SNIPEF member to carry out plumbing works at their private residence) with practical and/or financial assistance:-
1.1 if a Licensed Business or SNIPEF member refuses to implement or unreasonably delays in implementing the Licensing Scheme Complaints Panel’s decision' but in reality they don't do this and instead place customers in difficulty when customers adhere to their complaints scheme

 

[cr0ft]

I would be very interested in joining CIPHE. I have an Engineering Degree but no NVQ. Do I really have to obtain an NVQ to prove I am competent to join CIPHE? Before anyone tells me so, I'm aware the NVQ 3 is the requirement to be a qualified plumber in the UK, but an Engineering Degree surpasses this considerably. On top of this, I've been running my own plumbing business successfully now for 3 years.

If so then I'm not really interested in joining as I have zero intention of doing my NVQ having obtained a degree. If not then I would be very interested in doing so.

I realise mine is a bit of an unusual route into plumbing but here I am!

 

[dontknowitall]

I've wondered that too!! Don't have a degree though. Does Grade V in Piano count and RSA Typing Grade I (with distinction?)