Boiler not registered

[townfanjon]

Morning gents, can anybody help me with this one ....
customer moved into a new developed property at Xmas , the heating system was described as brand new ( I have seen the agents brochure )
Lots of problems but the main one is , the brand new boiler was manufactured in 2008 ( WB junior )
I rang WB and they can confirm it was never registered , it was also never registered to its first address , although nobody knows if it was the original boiler installed in the 'said 'house and moved during the development .
i am currently drafting a letter for the customer to take to his solicitor.
Obviously the boiler should have been registered but , what if any rules have the installers broken .


gents as ever , thank you

 

[Millsy 82]

When was the house completed?

6 years is a long time from leaving the factory to being installed, I know some company's buy in bulk to save costs but I wouldn't of thought they would buy enough for 6 months. Unless it has been sat in the back of a warehouse for that 6 years?

How old does the boiler look? (Usually you can tell with worcester when they have been in a few years) it may be that they had a problem with the one that was originally installed and they took this out of a show home or something, still I wouldn't of thought the show homes would be there for 6 years!

 

[Ray Stafford]

WB Junior wouldnt sit on a merchants shelf for that long. Maybe in an installer's garage.

 

[IDCHAPPY]

Even then it's a crazy amount of time.

 

[stevetheplumber]

i sold a 3 year old keeston that sat in my garage due to a financial dispute probably fell to bits when it was eventually fitted

 

[hammers4spanner]

If its never been registered then whats the chance of finding installer??

Obviously you know it needs to be registered /comissioned etc all i can see is gas safe asking you to commission and register appliance to conform with their code of practice.

Let the legal side of it go back to the cust about what they have bought etc etc

 

[townfanjon]

Sorry should have said guys, the boiler looks about 10. Years old, it most defiantly has not been on a shelf lol

the customer has already ripped into the estate agents, he was under the impression it was a brand new system and quickly realised it wasn't.

i don't want to get drawn in to this anymore, I have a feeling it's going to get nasty .

it was more what build regs/gas safe rules have they broken by not registering it.

 

[Ray Stafford]

it was more what build regs/gas safe rules have they broken by not registering it.

Nothing thats going to get enforced after that amount of time.

 

[townfanjon]

they are claiming it was fitted nov last year, the customer moved in at xmas lol

 

[Millsy 82]

Usually the solicitors won't do anything until they have the paperwork for it.

 

[Ted808]

i sold a 3 year old keeston that sat in my garage due to a financial dispute probably fell to bits when it was eventually fitted

Probably wuld've fallen appart anyway (member of i no like Keston! GRRR club)

 

[Nostrum]

When you say newly developed, do you mean renovated or a new build?

 

[townfanjon]

It's a fully developed old bungalow , massive extension on it, the builders have done a nice job, but it's just got secondhand heating.

 

[REDSAW]

i sold a 3 year old keeston that sat in my garage due to a financial dispute probably fell to bits when it was eventually fitted

thats the problem with kestons, no one wants to take on the legal ownership.lol

to o.p.
if its a 10 year old boiler then its not a band A is it? so its an illegal install!!

 

[Nostrum]

It's a fully developed old bungalow , massive extension on it, the builders have done a nice job, but it's just got secondhand heating.

Could have been the existing boiler that's been moved and a new heating system to go with it.

The building regulations have been breached by a controlled service installation not being notified, this is the homeowners responsibility.
Technically the developer was the homeowner at the time I would imagine, and the estate agents should have requested the certificate as part of the sale, however, I'm not entirely sure if they are legally obliged to do so since the HIPs where scrapped?

 

[Nostrum]

That said, if it was the existing boiler that was moved it wouldn't of needed to be notified so the responsibility would move back to the existing owner or the agents who sold it?

 

[village idiot]

Just goes to show how people take little interest in their heating and hot water till something goes wrong. How do you buy a 'New' property without checking the boiler? Before buying the house, their solicitor should have requested for the gas and associated components to be checked. I get too many calls from 'customers' saying they are in the process of buying a house, can I attend and check gas, heating etc are ok? It gives them a chance to knock something off the asking price if I inform them that: boiler is on the way out etc

 

[lame plumber]

if the boiler was moved any distance in the house it does need renotifying to building regs, according to our local unit. However the buyer has relied on the description given by the estate agent in their sales information, trades description act will apply and a complaint to their ombudsman will cause them a load of hassle it may be simpler for them to pay out a goodwill gesture, at the same sort of sum its costs for a replacement boiler, that would be my plan of attack;

 

[townfanjon]

That said, if it was the existing boiler that was moved it wouldn't of needed to be notified so the responsibility would move back to the existing owner or the agents who sold it?

Yep true, I think the boiler was fitted in to this house back in 2008 /2009. And just got moved ,the guy who has just moved it in November probably assumed it was registered , but WB say it has never been registered.

Village , the guy bought the house having a brand new heating system , it said so in the agents brochure, he cannot be blamed whatsoever.

 

[village idiot]

Village , the guy bought the house having a brand new heating system , it said so in the agents brochure, he cannot be blamed whatsoever.

I'm not disputing the 'brand new heating system'. I'm confused that he just took things for granted. Like Lame, I am of the opinion that if boiler is moved from one location to another, it has to be re-registered with the relevant authorities. Do you buy a house without attending a viewing? It's like ringing your local car dealer and asking to buy a Van. They tell you we have a brand bew Citroen Bellingo. You agree to go and buy it at an agreed price. Surely, when you get there you will ask to look at the van, wouldn't you? Or are you just going to pay up, take the keys and drive off just to complain in 4 months time that you've been told it's an old van? If someone is offering you a new van worth £9,999 for £5,000, then chances are you need to look closer. My guess is he bought the house cheaper than he thinks it should sell for, so turned a blind eye to certain issues that's now coming to hunt him.

 

[townfanjon]

I sort of see your point , the boilers in a cupboard you can only see the front of it, it's clean, or more to the point has been deliberately cleaned . To top/flue/bottom are all filthy and this is were you realise it's an old one . The rads on the face of it look new until you look down the back and see all the hairs and fluff .

Yes we would all delve a bit deeper, but you ant expect a retired guy to suss out his potential new heating system when he has to look at the whole house package in a couple of viewings . Especially with his mrs pecking his head.

as I said ,I have seen the brochure it says , brand new heating system !! ....... Not !! Lol

 

[Ray Stafford]

However the buyer has relied on the description given by the estate agent in their sales information, trades description act will apply

Trades descriptions act probably doesn't apply. Sales of property are treated differently to other contracts in both English and Scottish Law

See this below from [DLMURL="http://www.practicalconveyancing.co.uk/content/view/8121/0/"]practical convenancing [/DLMURL]

As for suing the seller personally, the starting point will be that the seller will be bound by any misrepresentation made by his or her estate agent. This is because any misdescription will take effect as a statement authorised by the seller, irrespective of whether it was so authorised. Thus, in principle, the seller can be sued for the agent’s misrepresentation. But, that simple proposition was seriously undermined by Collins [1980], where the agent showed the buyer misleading plans. Although this was held to be a misrepresentation, the buyer lost his claim against the agent because of a standard clause in the sale particulars that said ‘the vendor does not make or give, and neither the estate agent or any person in their employment has any authority to make or give, any representational warranty whatever in relation to this property’. This meant that the seller could argue that even if there was a misrepresentation it was not made by him and nor was it made by an authorised agent and thus the seller was not liable (even though he had specifically authorised the agent to show the misleading plans to the buyers). At that stage, one might have thought that such a provision would be disregarded as being ‘unreasonable’ under UCTA 1977, but it had earlier been held by the courts that a ‘no authority’ clause of this sort would not be an exemption clause (and thus it was not covered by UCTA 1977). In short, the unhappy buyer cannot sue the seller for the agent’s misrepresentation.


But, can the buyer take action against the estate agent? Unfortunately, the answer is ‘no’ because the law of misrepresentation only applies to statements made by a contracting party (which the estate agent is not). Accordingly, the only hope for the buyer is to argue that there has been negligence by the estate agent, with the agent owing a duty of care to prospective purchasers not to mislead them. However, in McCullagh [1996], such a claim against an estate agent (who had quoted the wrong plot size) failed because it was held that no duty of care arose – and even if there had been such a duty of care, the disclaimer in the sale particulars would have protected the agent (‘all statements contained in these particulars as to this property are made without responsibility on the part of the agents’).

The fact that there is, in practice, no real remedy available in respect of misleading estate agents’ particulars is surprising.

It may be different in Scotland

 

[village idiot]

Caveat emptor springs to mind

 

[stevetheplumber]

ive always seen heating not tested on all estate agents blurb so doubt if theyy have actually done anything wrong amazes me that people with little building experience dont get comprehensive surveys done when buying a house

 

[SimonG]

ive always seen heating not tested on all estate agents blurb so doubt if theyy have actually done anything wrong amazes me that people with little building experience dont get comprehensive surveys done when buying a house

Because they dont like spending money.

Seriously though, its the biggest investment the majority of people will make, so spend a few quid to make sure its sound.

 

[PhoenixServices]

Agree with above, I had a full independent survey done on mine. ( not sure why as I gutted it from top to bottom)

 

[hammers4spanner]

ive always seen heating not tested on all estate agents blurb so doubt if theyy have actually done anything wrong amazes me that people with little building experience dont get comprehensive surveys done when buying a house

Even the surveys are a joke tho ,
Like us they get X amount to do in a day and get pressured to do them , also i would question if half these surveyors actually know what a brick is never mind knowing anything about heating.

 

[rpm]

Even the surveys are a joke tho ,
Like us they get X amount to do in a day and get pressured to do them , also i would question if half these surveyors actually know what a brick is never mind knowing anything about heating.

They sure as hell don`t know what a macerator is.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Agree with above, I had a full independent survey done on mine. ( not sure why as I gutted it from top to bottom)

Me too. And it stopped me making the biggest financial mistake of my life. Best £1,500 I ever spent.

 

[Millsy 82]

Even the surveys are a joke tho ,
Like us they get X amount to do in a day and get pressured to do them , also i would question if half these surveyors actually know what a brick is never mind knowing anything about heating.

I worked for someone after they had just bought the house and they wanted the boiler serviced even though they said it had been done before the sale by someone the old owners got in, as I was servicing the boiler I was talking to them and they said they paid for a full survey and they came back with nothing all was ok.

But since they had moved in they found loads of faults the worst was the roof was leaking and the previous owners had put a flexi tub up in the loft to catch the water and re painted the ceiling, they spoke to there solicitor about trying to claim money back from the surveyor and the solicitor said don't bother with that you won't win as they have disclaimers on everything. Needless to say I also ID the boiler as the case seals were shot on a positive pressure case.